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 Post subject: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:13 pm
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Location: Darkest Suffolk UK
Well.... The question is in the title really..... What's best for wiring a rack... balanced or Unbalanced cable... Are there any benefits with using balanced?

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 Post subject: Re: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:05 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
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Unless the devices at each end of the cable support balanced connections, I would skip it and just use regular instrument cable without ever looking back ;)

That's my approach!


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 Post subject: Re: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:13 pm
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Location: Darkest Suffolk UK
Thanks for your reply John... I've just noticed that the g-force output jack sockets are balanced tip + ring....what does this mean for me?.... Also I've been reading that you can mix balanced and unbalanced on the same cable, and that it can help eliminate ground loops...

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"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour


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 Post subject: Re: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:49 pm 
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The G-Force does support balanced connections, but if nothing else in the rig does too then there really is no point in attempting to utilize this capability. Simple unbalanced instrument cable like you use in the rest of the rig will be just fine.

A balanced cable has two signal wires as a twisted pair and a shield wrap around them. It can have better interference rejection, but I've never heard about the signal mixing or ground loop things you mention.

I hope that helps!


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 Post subject: Re: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:13 pm
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Location: Darkest Suffolk UK
Just for your info, here's the article I've read... Regarding ground loops issues with wireless systems:

Quote:
Another ground loop trap are wireless receivers that have a metal housing or a 3-pin power plug. Unfortunately,
within these devices, the audio ground (shield of the guitar cable) is usually connected to the chassis ex-works. The
guitar cable is therefore connected to ground in front of the amplifier, and as a result there again is the dreaded
triangle connection.

There are several solutions for this problem:
• Professional devices have a ground lift switch, which allows you to interrupt the connection between the audio
ground and the chassis/earth. In wireless receivers, that is rather not the case. But often, a cable can just be
pinched off inside the unit, and the problem is solved. This should always be done by a trained technician. But
sometimes, the devices are designed so that a separation of audio ground and chassis inside the unit is not very
feasible.
• If the receiver has a balanced output (XLR), you can apply the pseudo-symmetry trick

The Pseudo-Balanced Trick
Basically, there is nothing against having balanced wiring on a guitar rig. However, balanced connectors are offered
only in high-quality effects units, some wireless receivers and, perhaps, the one or the other modeling processor.
But with a special cable, you can connect an unbalanced connector with a balanced connector, and therefore have
a floating connection (without ground connection). This can save you a transmission transformer.

In this particular cable, the tip of the jack-plug is connected to pin 2 of the XLR connector. The ground (shield) is
connected with pin 3 of the XLR connector. Pin 1 of the XLR connector is not (!) connected.

If you connect an XLR input with such a cable, the signal loses 6 dB of its level. If you connect an
XLR output this way, the signal is boosted by 6dB. Thus, give attention to correct levels and adjust the levels using
the input and output gain controls on the device.

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"My technique is laughable at times. I have developed a style of my own, I suppose, which creeps around. I'll never be a very fast guitar player."

David Gilmour


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 Post subject: Re: Balanced or unbalanced cable?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
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Location: The Lab
That article is mostly talking about XLR jacks... and that units that employ Balanced XLR jacks often have ground lift switches. It is the ground lift switch that is helpful in eliminating a ground loop, not necessarily a balanced cable.

It does go on to describe a cable for supporting Balanced to Non-Balanced signal paths. You can totally go ahead and use this info to make a cable that uses the balanced connections on one end but goes to a non-balanced connection on the other.

Here is what it says in the G-Force Manual about the Balanced Outputs:
Notes:
The G-Force Input jacks are unbalanced. The Output jacks are balanced.
If you are connecting the Outputs via stereo jacks to unbalanced equipment, you must tie ring and sleeve
together in the cable ends away from the G-Force.
You can always use standard mono guitar cables to connect G-Force.


What I'm suggesting is that in your situation, this is not likely to make any difference other than to make your FX Loop connections require a custom made cable. I doubt there is a ground loop there to worry about since an FX Return is usually ground lifted anyway.


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