Effect in multiple paths

Q & A for building and interfacing your rack gear with Ground Control Pro and GCX-based systems.
wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:04 pm

Hello Jack,

Yes, i've searched about the Switchblade GL and it really solves the problem.
But the price is very high... it's $2.000 a new unit.
The old units need an upgrade (paid) to have the instant access feature which is very useful too.

I even made a project containig 2 GCXs and 1 Switchblade which would solve all my problems.

But the cost is very high.

i'll be thinking about it.

Thanks again,
Wagner.

nyteowl
Posts: 1385
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by nyteowl » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:04 am

I hear what you're saying about that $2K price tag, which was the primary reason I went with a Voodoo Lab GCPro/GCX package back in the day. However, Switchblade GLs can be found on the used market (Craig's List, eBay, Reverb) for less, and sometimes even half that much, if one is patient.

Let us know how you make out with your rig.
I am not affiliated with Voodoo Lab in any way, but enjoy sharing what little MIDI and signal routing knowledge I've picked up over the years. If you find my assistance helpful, please pay it forward.

wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:41 pm

Hello John and Jack,

Thanks again for your answers.
It was really helpfull.

I think i`ve managed to get everything i wanted using the 3 GCXs.
I gave up using the stereo output on the MOBIUS and i`ll be using the PRE/POST feature.
This way i can save some loops.
To save more loops i`m connecting some effects that will be always on and some effects that i can bypass by MIDI without GCXs loops (in the drawing they are the BOOSTER, WHAMMY, EQUALIZER and VOLUME).

I`ve managed to put the TIMELINE in 2 different places (using loops 1/5, 3/7, 3/8 and 3/5 in the drawing).
1/5 is: GCX number 1, loop 5.
3/7 is: GCX number 3, loop 7 and so on.

I`ve also managed to put the MOBIUS in 2 different places (using loops 2/6, 2/7, 2/8 and 3/1 in the drawing) that allowed me to use it in my acoustic chain too.

Please, can you check the drawing to see if there is any mistake?
It is a bit messy, but i think you can understand.

With this setup, i'm using all 24 loops.

This setup is WET/DRY/WET so i have some questions about it:
1 - Phase question: maybe the DRY AMP can be out of phase with the WET AMPs. is there a way to make a PHASE REVERSAL in the DRY AMP if they are out of phase?
2 - Ground loops: using many amps can cause ground loops, if this is my case (i didn't test it as i have only one amp), how can i solve the ground loops? If i make a special cable with the ground disconnected on the AMP side and use these cable to connect both WET AMPs, is ok?

Thanks again,
Wagner.
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wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Hello,
I have another question about this WET/DRY/WET rig.
I've put the TUBE VIBE, PHASER and ELECTRIC MISTRESS on the effect loop of the DRY AMP.
So these effects will be heard on the DRY AMPs.

The WET AMPS will get the PITCH SHIFTER, TIMELINE and BIG SKY.

Basicaly, i put all effects that have stereo output on the WET amps.

Should the TUBE VIBE, PHASER and ELECTRIC MISTRESS go only on the WET AMPs?
I can change it.

This way the DRY AMP will get only booster, drive and big muff effects.

Thanks again,
Wagner.

wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:03 pm

here are some pictures of the wiring.
i still need to finish.
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wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:04 pm

1 more picture
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nyteowl
Posts: 1385
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by nyteowl » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:54 am

That's a ton of pedals, amigo, and I can see why it's such a daunting task sussing out how to properly connect them all. Since I've been out of this game for more than a few years now I'm going to defer to John's wisdom, but if you haven't already considered it, making all the GCX specific connections first and testing them independently to ensure they are all functioning properly before making the GCX to GCX connections may save you a lot of headaches.
I am not affiliated with Voodoo Lab in any way, but enjoy sharing what little MIDI and signal routing knowledge I've picked up over the years. If you find my assistance helpful, please pay it forward.

JohnClark
Posts: 7401
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: The Lab

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by JohnClark » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:11 pm

It's getting there, but for certain you will want to test some of the more wild stuff before committing to custom length cables. (also, on your diagram, arrows help to know signal direction... if you need to look at this again in a year from now will you know which dots are ins or outs? ;) )

I would do the effect routing just like you have it as far as which effects hit which amps. Delays and reverbs are going to be the primary effects in the wet amps.

For the Instrument Switching at the beginning, you will need to establish an audio ground path for Guitar 2 and Guitar 3 since the Return jacks are Ground Lifted. This can be done with a small wire soldered to the sleeve connection in each "Return" cable that connects to the Sleeve connection of the adjacent "Out" cable.
However, Instrument switching this way is only good for strict switching... like you always use Guitar 1 for specific songs, and Guitar 2 for another song... Presets programmed with Loop 1 On will always come up with Guitar 2 active.
If this is instead intended as a backup to cover for incidentals like string breakage, you would be better off with an external switcher like a Whirlwind Selector that would allow you to activate any guitar you want at any time.

Start the complicated parts as simple as possible... so like just the TimeLine and Mobius wired to the loops as you've labeled. You should at least be able to confirm that they produce sound when they are active when the appropriate combination of GCX Loops are on.
For Ground Loops, yea, you're going to have them! The switching of effects positions as well as the multiple amps are both common places to have ground loops. You can employ something like the EbTech Hum Eliminator that has two Isolation Transformers inside that will fix two ground loop paths. Build it slow, and test often. Once it works, add complexity and fix whatever new went wrong ;)

I hope that helps!
------------------====Cheers!====------------------
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---------==Voodoo Lab Magician & Tech==---------

wcampagner
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by wcampagner » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:41 am

Hello John,
Thanks again for your support!
Much appreciatted!

I've already make some custom lenght cables, but only the effects end.
I let the cable a little bigger, to make the other end (GCX end) later.

I need to make a better documentation too.
Not only the signal path diagram, but the MIDI and POWER connections too.
I have all hand drawn like the diagram above.
I will update the docs and send again when i finish, ok?
Do you know some software that i can make these diagram easily?

About the WET/DRY/WET setup, in the diagram, i am running UNIVIBE, PHASER, ELECTRIC MISTRESS and MOBIUS on the DRY AMP too.
Do you think it is better to run these effects only in the WET amps?
So that the DRY AMP will get only COMPRESSOR, DRIVE, FUZZ effects.

About the guitar switching, thanks for remember that the GCX's RETURNS are ground lifted, i have forgot about it.
What if i connect the two guitar like this:
- guitar 1 in the OUTPUT of the GCX loop
- guitar 2 in the SEND of the GCX loop
- the OUTPUT of this scenario would be the INPUT of the GCX loop

This way, there is no ground lift.
The SEND will be grounded when the GCX loop is bypassed (guitar 2 will be grounded).
I think it will work without the need to make special cables.
What do you think?

This is kind of a strict switching.
I play specific guitars in specific songs.
Today i use a mechanical rotary switch i made myself to switch the 3 guitars.
Guitar 3 is a slide guitar, so i don't use often... just a few songs.
But i understood your point... if a string breaks in guitar 1, i won't be able to have the same preset for guitar 2.

One stupid option would be to make 3 identical presets, just changing the guitars... so i'll have all the presets for all the guitars. I don't know if this is practical.
Or i can use the GCP in the 4PRESET/BANK setting and configure 2 INSTANT ACCESS buttons to switch the guitars.

Last question... about the PHASE REVERSAL... if the DRY AMP is PHASE REVERSAL with the WET AMPs, the sound will be thin.
Is there a way to put a PHASE REVERSAL EFFECT in a GCX loop?
So that i can switch it ON and OFF to match the PHASE on all 3 AMPs.

My amp is a FENDER HOT ROD DELUXE... and i read that it flips the PHASE when using the overdrive channel too.
I will use it in the CLEAN channel only (the drives will come from the effects).
But in case the CLEAN channel is OUT OF PHASE with the WET AMPs?
Is there a way to correct it?

I'm doing this project since 2014 in my spare time.
I have a few time to work on it (that's why it is taking so long).
But now i plan to speed it up.
Can't wait to have all set up.

There is some more pictures how the rack will look in the end below.

Thanks again,
Wagner.
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JohnClark
Posts: 7401
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: The Lab

Re: Effect in multiple paths

Post by JohnClark » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:15 pm

That is a great looking rack shell!!

I'm still old school I suppose and I hand draw all my diagrams. I have never found a program that lets me do it "my way" as easily ;)

My opinion on the wet/dry routing was to leave it how you have in the diagram with the Vibe, Phase, Flange, and whatever the Mobius is doing ;) in the Dry amp. Of course you should experiment, but these effects can sound funny with the true dry signal along side them... or they might sound really cool in an unexpected way.

Guitar Switching... Yea, you can use the loops backward to establish the ground. There is no real need to ground an unused guitar, but the Send will do that anyway.
Personally, I'd ditch the whole idea and just use what you already have for switching, or unless you are going to use a wireless setup, just run a pop-less connector at the guitar end of one cable. You have to swap guitars anyway, what time saving do you really gain by having a button to "plug in" a different guitar when you can just pull the cord out of the first one and plug it into the second one as you fling the strap over your shoulder? Besides, this frees up two loops for what you really need... more effects! :twisted:

Phase of the amps... If the Phase isn't changing when switching things, then you can simply swap the "+ and -" connections on the offending amp's speakers.
------------------====Cheers!====------------------
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---------==Voodoo Lab Magician & Tech==---------

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